Special Edition Mail Call: Density of Men
Good Thursday Boys and Girls. Today I have a very special edition post. I actually received these two questions on AIM one night from a member of the opposite sex. Since it was almost my bedtime and knowing full what well what I was getting myself into, I requested that said woman email the questions to me. So here they are:
1.) In general, are boys dense? 2.) Are boys dense in relationship to knowing whether or not a girl is interested in or not interested in them? 3.) Or is that dependent upon the male and the female’s actions?
1.) No
2.) No
3.) Yes
See? Those were easy ones to answer.
Ok, so maybe those responses were for all the men out there. Ladies, here is my response to you:
First and foremost, I need to clarify something. What I’m about to say is my opinion and I can speak only for myself and observations that I’ve made in life. I really don’t see this as being “the gospel” or something that’s right or wrong, just how I view things. I also feel that these questions are loaded and could be compared to something along the lines of me asking you, “Why are women emotional?” So please keep that in mind as you read my response:
Sadly, this question does require an in depth reply. Why you ask? Because dating a Christian woman means you have to go by a whole new set of rules, in addition to the regular set. As if dating a woman wasn’t complicated enough, you’ve got to throw in a set of Christian morals and beliefs. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing; just more we have to sit down, hash through, and try to figure out.
Take a look at the dating ideology of Christian women in general. When you strip away all the fluff/reasons behind it and sum it up bluntly, they just want God to drop a husband in their lap. It’s as if the doorbell’s going to ring and your husband will be standing (or kneeling as the case may be) there with flowers and ring. Oh, and don’t forget the ray of light from the heavens…and birds chirping. Yes, I realize that’s an extreme example, but hopefully you get the point.
In my book, that more or less rules out casual dating. And while I’m on my soapbox, let me say this. You need that casual dating/relationship experience. Yes, technically you need to date-to-marry, but you’ve got to start somewhere. At least meet God half way here peoples. However, that’s a different post for another day.
So that’s the first thing that we have to take into account when we flirt with (or receive flirtage from) a woman. Is she waiting for God to dangle a husband out there in front of here? Fortunately (or unfortunately) there are many outcomes to this scenario. A) Is she waiting for that magical moment? If so…then are we it? At this point we will either: 1. Run away. 2. Stay and see what happens. 3. If we get any sort of negative vibe (i.e. not interested), you’re labeled as unattainable and we move on. For argument’s sake, take option 1 or 3. And there you have it; you are black-balled relationally (nothing beyond that “just friends”).
Then there’s B) You are one of those semi-rare women who are Christian but don’t mind the causal dating scene. That means that you made it past the first test. Congratulations! The second test is to see if you are just being nice…you know…because you are a Christian and all. It’s that whole good neighbor/golden rule thing. Sometimes this can be the most difficult and drawn out process. It all depends on how long you feel like fending off our advances. Basically, we don’t know if you are trying not to hurt our feelings or trying to decide if you are attracted to us or [insert your favorite excuse here].
Now for argument’s sake, pretend that we like you and you like us. Not too shabby. The intricate task now is trying to figure our how to let the other person know. This is where another cog is thrown into the wheel of Christian dating. Women by nature tend to be on the, well, competitive side. Which in turn can lead to devious, sly, or some other similar underhanded acts. (Just for clarification, I’ve noticed that the ratio of women to men in campus ministries is about 3:1.) And just to make things EVEN more interesting, you can’t be too “competitive” in the open because you’ve got to meet the Christ standard. What that means is that you have to be extra subtle on how you let us know that you are digging us. Because once that Christian gossip train gets going, you’ll be the talk of the town (w00t w00t, l33t, l33t!).
But wait, there’s more!!! Women have a, how would you say, emotional side. If I could sum up the stability of those emotions, it would be like balancing your great-great grandmother’s tea cup on a mile long broom handle resting on your nose while standing on a beach ball. Needless to say, it’s a delicate situation. As grueling as this may be, put yourself in our shoes. We’re trying to figure out how you feel about us when a kaleidoscope of emotions is going off somewhere in the core in your inner being and what do you say to all of that, “Nothing, I feel fine.”
So I don’t think believe that guys are dense at all. I also don’t believe that they are dense to what goes on a relationship. Yes, (I have to speak for myself here) I do take note of everything little thing you say or do and I analyze it. Why? I’m just trying to figure out how you really feel deep down inside because I really want to know. And yes, there are things that both men and women can do to tip off the opposite sex to attraction. But like I said earlier, that’s another post. It’s just really tricky to figure out what’s going and we have to take somethings with a grain of salt. After all, it’s a fashion faux pas for either side to just scream out, “I’ve got the hots for you!!”
I will say this though. Guys do tend to compartmentalize areas of our lives. In other words, we tend to focus on a single task (or set of similar tasks) and block everything else out. Basically, we get preoccupied. So if for some reason we aren’t in our relationship area, we might not notice that you are flirting (especially the really subtle stuff that ya’ll love to do so much). I think that gets misunderstood as being dense.
Please don’t misconstrue what I’ve said. Dating Christians have been some of the most rewarding choices I’ve ever made. I always learn more about myself, God, and what I want out of life in the process. I usually make a good friend in the process too. It’s something that I will continue to do until I meet that special lady. However, I just happen to think that the whole Christian dating process is a little flawed and people tend to make it more complicated that it really is.
But hey, you asked for my opinion…and there it is.
Now if you don’t mind, I’m going to be moving around quite a bit because its harder to hit a moving target.
Anti-Liger-Alliance (link cred goes out to Heather)
Man fined for hurling Egg McMuffin at McDonald’s worker. Cholesterol’ed!!
Behold! The power of modern technology: The Popcorn Fork.
He should have used Fixodent.
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I'm currently living in Tallahassee, FL where I am a graduate of the Computer Science program at FSU and a C# web developer for a local software company.
You never cease to amaze me. You are full of so many random, but pertinate, thoughts. I hope that your explanation cleared things up for your friend and I also hope that you have a fabulous day! ~melissa
* Still trying to “Cut the Chew!”
I believe I just cut the chew
.
I think people should just run around screaming out “I’ve got the hots for you!” It would make things a little less complicated . . . and it would crack me up!
Whoas dude. You misspelled “sum”,
GAH! grammar police! Run away! No, seriously, great post tho. And eprops+1 on the part about “analyzing every little thing you say”.
Word.
Alright I have to give credit where credit is due. Very clever outlook Mr. Starling on Christian dating and yes as a member of the opposite sex I will admit to being somewhat, shall we say complicated. But I also think that men just like women can also be complicated, sending mix signals and such, so don’t think you guys get off scott free on that issue. Oh it’s good idea to become a moving target you never know when another fiesty female will come around and show you what she thought of your posting
.
P.S. Movie night tonight Yay or Nay? Let your public know. Have a good one, ciao
Thanks Charles! For some reason I missed that error around 11:00 PM last night. I remember seeing it and thinking that should probably change that…but then the idea of sleep more or less took over.
Fiesty Female, I welcome any and all rebuttals. In fact, I’ve got a section just for that. As for men being complicated…it doesn’t take much to figure us out and what makes us happy.
As for movie night: Nay this time around. Sorry about that folks.
Just looking out for you, man. Those grammar police can be vicious.
Oh, and nice job on providing some insight to the females around about the way us males really think. I’d say we think about these things just as much, or even more than they do. We just don’t talk about it as much.
The whole loaded question, beat around the bush thing? Yeah, I believe that’s mostly a female phenomenon. Hrmmm….
Are men dense? No.
But is it a good excuse to use when you women like a guy and he doesn’t return the flirting. Saying that the guy is dense is a lot easier than saying that the guy just isn’t into you.
I’ve never read this book, but it may be true…
Recommendations for women:
Have confidence. If you carry yourself with self-worth, the guy will treat you as a person with worth. If you don’t think highly of yourself, neither will the guy.
Dress nicely. If you dress like one of the guys, you will be one of the guys. If you dress like a slut, you will be treated like a slut. Look like you take care of yourself.
Be intelligent. Unless you want to be nothing more than an arm trophy. What are you going to do when you aren’t in public if you can’t have conversation?
Don’t be clingy. Show that you are interested, but don’t look like you are desperate. If you act like you are desperate for the guy, he will think that you will settle for anything. The guy wants to know that you want him, not that you will settle for him.
Don’t be afraid to be a little aggressive. Don’t try to take his pants away (figuratively), but when you do start dating, don’t be afraid to take him on a date. Show that you are as interested in him as he is in you. Be willing to flirt some. Be willing to initiate conversation some. If he starts the conversation, don’t be shy, but engage in the conversation.
Don’t do it. You know what I mean. If you have sex with the guy, why would he ever want to have anything else in the relationship, he already has what he wants. And you probably would sleep with other guys too. So, you easy. Easy to pick up, easy to use, and easy to drop. And, if the guy tries to have sex with you, question whether he really is a Christian into Christian dating. He doesn’t respect you. He doesn’t respect God. And he is only thinking about his desires in the short term.
Don’t expect the guy to read your mind. He can’t do it.
Don’t say one thing and mean something else. Again, he can’t read your mind.
You have a lot to balance. But, if you can walk up a set of stairs in your high heels, then you can balance this.
Amen brother!
I agree that Christian dating is not easy. It is hard to get in a relationship to begin with.
And, then when you are in a relationship, it doesn’t get easier. But it is worth it.
It takes love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. This should sound familiar. Fruits of the spirit ya’ll.
It also takes a lot of forgiveness. Neither person will show all of the fruits of the spirit all of the time. So, forgiveness is key. And don’t judge the person by who he or she used to be. See who they are now and who they are trying to become.
Also, don’t expect God to deliver the one right to you. I have learned a lot about relationships by being in them. I am not perfect (ask Jillian), but I have learned a lot about how people interact and how to work through things. You learn from your mistakes. The first person you date might be the right person for you, but don’t assume that to be the case. It probably isn’t the case. But use your dating relationships as a means to learn about yourself and as a means of growing into a better person.
Also, you have to love God and love yourself before you can love another person.
Oh yeah, and have an accountability partner and don’t forget about your friends for support. You may need them if things don’t work out.
Play a game of checkers. Then wait for God… like it says so in Psalm 27:14. All of that equals great relationship (okay and a few other things.)
ok i’m going off topic here and gonna complain that the anti liger link is dead. errrrr.
Wow, man, and all this time I just thought you weren’t e-mailing me back!
Heck of a post and related discussion here in the comments section. Truly interesting.
As the question was posed last Thursday in Bible study and that’s where I am headed, I am off to share the insights to the ladies who’ve wondered.
Great post.
Noel, you owe me big-time, kthanx.
Though the opposite sex would be quick to say they are not, I truly uphold the opinion that yes, in fact, boys are dense. Perhaps it would be better to say that boys are MORE dense than women. Shall we say…they don’t pick up on subtleties.
See, women are over-analytical. We will take literally everything you say and run it through a test. Yes, we will take any comment, movement, eye contact, tease, etc. and pick it apart. We will try to unfold every single hidden subconscious thing possible behind it. Call us over-analytical, call us crazy. I call it “typical girl”.
Though Joshua says that it is “rare” to find a woman who casually dates, I would surmise that they are the majority. In fact, even in the Christian community, I think you would be more likely to find someone who is willing to go on a few casual dates than one who is truly waiting for a guy to land on her doorstep. Those that do not casually date are looked at the world’s next lifelong spinsters, even by fellow Christians. Then again, this entire subject rests solely on the ever-relative definitions of “casual dating” and “waiting”.
See, when a woman finds a particular man Godly and respectable (read: attractive), the woman, being the over-analytical being that she is, must find a delicate balance between a neon-green billboard, and, well, timid subtlety, in order to convey her interest without scaring off the poor guy. Yes, indeed, this artful blend of subtlety is truly difficult. How can a woman show her interest in the man-of-her-dreams without appearing desperate?
No amount of book reading will ever be able to help women on this topic. Believe me, I’ve tried, and hey, I’m STILL confused. And I may be my entire life.
I think it is also important to factor in the fear of rejection. Sometimes a guys picks up on the subtleties, but wants more than just subtleties if he is going to risk asking a woman out. Being rejected is like being dumped without ever going on a date. They are both painful and depressing. I should know.
Top three things men hate for women to say:
3. I have to wash my hair that night.
2. Let’s just be friends.
1. We need to talk.
With her smile as sweet as a warm wind in summer
She’s got me flying like a bird in a bright June sky
And then just when she thinks that I’ve got her number
Brings me down to the ground with her wintry eye
That’s my baby
She can be all four seasons in one day
And when the nighttime comes with no interference
To our warm summer love with all its charms
But like a thoroughbred horse she can turn on a sixpence
And I find that I’m back in Mistress Winter’s arms
That’s my baby
She can be all four seasons in one day
How will I know?
How can I tell?
Which side of the bed she takes when the day begins
She can be kind
She can be cruel
She’s got me guessing like a game show fool
She can change her mind like she changes her sweaters
From one minute to the next it’s hard to tell
She blows hot and cold just like stormy weather
She’s my gift from the Lord or a fiend from hell
That’s my baby
She can be all four seasons in one day
Watching the weatherman’s been no good at all
Winter, spring, summer, I’m bound for a fall
There are no long term predictions for my baby
She can be all four seasons in one day
If it’s a sunny day I take my umbrella
Just in case the raindrops start to fall
You could say that I’m just a cautious fellow
I don’t want to be caught in a sudden squall
That’s my baby
She can be all four seasons in one day
That’s my baby
She can be all four seasons in one day
Women, over-analytical. Never!
I think women can be as dense as what they claim men to be.
I know that I’ve made subtle hints and gently flirted with women who, because they are so busy over analyzing every little thing, completely miss it.
Women may be good at dropping hints, but they aren’t any better at picking up on them than men.
Oh, and a little hint for the ladies. If I give you a complement, do not refute it. Period.
For example, if I say that you look nice. Do not say things like “No I don’t. I look horrible today.” If you refute my complement, you are basically telling me that I have bad taste. And I know for a fact that I have good taste. Never return a compliment with an insult. At least not if you ever want to get another compliment again.
I’m not going to lie I’m over-analytical and dense…I do enjoy a compliment every now and then though
Sorry, A Typical Girl, maybe you’re the only one, but most of us women are definitely thick… no, not fat, but maybe that too. You say dense, perhaps you’ll like ‘naive’ a little better. It’s perhaps more discriptive. We’re not stupid (but hey, neither are guys), but we are a bit out of it sometimes. Sometimes we’re just too darn nice. Makin’ guys think stuff that isn’t. And sometimes we’re just too darn hard on ourselves (read: Artie, not a subtle hint). Or, maybe we are too over analytical. No, this does not place us in a category far above the heads of the men we are attempting to get at. It, if anything makes our lives harder. Maybe the dude is just trying to be nice, friendly, kind, supportive, encouraging, etc. Or maybe he likes you. But until you hear that second part directly from him… go with no.
Which brings me to my second point. Men: I know you don’t like to be rejected, seriously, who does? But I for one, and many others I know, adhere to the opinion that Men are supposed to be the initiators. All subtle hints aside… it’s your job! (read: man=spiritual leader, relationship is supposed to be godly… dude, it’s your job)
Yeah, chicks, let up on the dudes… dudes, don’t be so communication shy to the chicks. Outie.
Oh, and there’s nothin’ wrong with just being one of the guys for a while…
I don’t have a problem with the man being the initiator.
But, that means that you have to be patient and let him initiate. If you don’t want to initiate, then you have no room to complain.
Side word of advice. Since we use the term “Chemistry” to describe what happens between boys and girls, men and women. I am going to use a chemical analogy.
Men are the reactants that get the process started. That doesn’t mean that women can’t be a catalyst in the process.
Catalyst: A substance, usually used in small amounts relative to the reactants, that modifies and increases the rate of a reaction without being consumed in the process.
Women: please not the not being consumed in the process part
Hey!! The company I work for makes cataylst…hmmmm… I know there’s money to be made here. Yes…yes..ideas a forming.
Business Plan:
1.Make Catalyst
2.???
3.Profit
Hey man.
I know some stuff about chemicals and hazardous materials and catalysts and such. And I think I know where you are going with this idea.
Let’s go into business.
By the way, this is an actual chemical that I had to add to our system today:
POLY (OXY-1,2-ETHANEDIYL), ALPHA- (4-NONYLPHENYL) – OMEGAHYDROXY-, BRANCHED (NONOXYNOL-10) SURFACTANT
This one sounds nasty to me.
Okay, so I just began to think something through a tad bit…
If there is this much “chemistry”, “overanalyticalness”, “fear of rejection” and “art of attraction” to this boy-girl relationship stuff…
How does ANYTHING ever get done in this world?
How did we ever find the time to sign the Declaration of Independence, win WWII, discover the steam engine, or invent the electric wok?
Things are starting to become clearer right about now.
And thx Joshua for the most recent article. I shall take it to heart.
And, indeed, the Five Love Languages is a terrific piece of literature. I highly suggest everyone read it.
-A Typical Girl <—”Words of affirmation”
If it wasn’t for this whole love thing, we would probably get a lot more done. We would be much more productive (but not reproductive). But since it is Friday, I don’t really want to think or talk about productivity.
Sometimes that driving need to procreate surpasses all bounds.
Besides the fact that guys will do many things becuase of a woman, like invent something, or war (think Troy), we also have monks and nuns who aren’t troubled by all these things…I can only assume theres a direct correlation between our society having less productive as compared to the ancients, and the decline in popularity of monks and nuns (eventhough they weren’t ancients)
As long as it surpasses all bounds within the bounds of wedlock.
You’re right – we spend entirely too much time worrying about love and not enough time being productive. Solution: arranged marriages. Bring on the mail order Russian Fire Betty Crockers!
I think the science guy is having a hard time with the comments section. Come on Bill.
P-Jilly, are you ok over there? So yeah, I baleeted those problem comments. As for the mail order Russian Fire Betty Crockers, they are still on back order.
Are you dense? Find out with this experiment.
The “Am I Dense” experiment.
wow, i’ve missed out on a lot since my hiatus from cyberspace.
since having recently severed a relationship with a member of the female species, i just wanted to add a few key comments on this topic.
guys, don’t be afraid to approach a lady. i’ve had more women respond to me being confident in myself and being able to approach them. ladies, this also works in reverse (though i can’t speak for everyone. in my own book this is a big plus).
guys, please…and i beg you, please communicate with your female companion. through my own experience i’ve learned that communication is the most important part of a successful relationship. ladies, please open your ears further for your male companion. you may not want to hear his stories about how big of a mushroom cloud he made with a coke can, a little gasoline, and chlor-tabs but this is what drives him; it’s what makes him feel masculine. on the opposite, don’t play to his ego. that’s the most destructive approach to a meaningful relationship.
above all, be honest with each other.
i’ll leave y’all today with some of the greatest quotes from three of the most influential figures in my life:
“love everybody!” – big kenny
“be excellent to each other” – bill s. preston, esquire
“party on, dudes!” – ted (theodore) logan